Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

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Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:06 pm

One definition of dowsing is the ability to ask a question and receive an answer (either yes, no or don’t know) by using either a tool, such as a pendulum or an L-rod, or parts of the body, (deviceless dowsing) without using any of the normal five senses to obtain information.

One definition of divination is the attempt to gain knowledge of the future by interpreting a pattern that is produced when using tools such as Tarot, Casting Bones, I Ching, tealeaves or any other similar methods.

Dowsing can be used to obtain info about both past and present conditions but dowsing the future can be unreliable because there are too many variables involved so it is likely that you will not get an answer to any questions involving the future..

Divining can be used to obtain info about the future but, again, there is no surety that what is divined will come to pass. Does this mean that divination is better than dowsing when trying to forecast the future ?
Geoff

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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby B.J.C.Courtney » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:03 pm

Geoff Stuttaford wrote:One definition of dowsing is the ability to ask a question and receive an answer (either yes, no or don’t know) by using either a tool, such as a pendulum or an L-rod, or parts of the body, (deviceless dowsing) without using any of the normal five senses to obtain information.

One definition of divination is the attempt to gain knowledge of the future by interpreting a pattern that is produced when using tools such as Tarot, Casting Bones, I Ching, tealeaves or any other similar methods.

Dowsing can be used to obtain info about both past and present conditions but dowsing the future can be unreliable because there are too many variables involved so it is likely that you will not get an answer to any questions involving the future..

Divining can be used to obtain info about the future but, again, there is no surety that what is divined will come to pass. Does this mean that divination is better than dowsing when trying to forecast the future ?


Geof,

As a born empathic clairvouyant i find your posting extreamy intresting,, the L rod is also called the divining rod thus all aspects of this esoteric are one of the same, you ask is that is Divination better than Dowsing?

Well as i feel and no they are aspects of one of the same, just like the cloths,even style, colour we wear, its basicly down in part to culture and individual Spiritual practice, we are born to tap into Divination, the word divine insperation says it all, its just horses for courses or personal taste.
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby simonwheeler » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:18 pm

Geoff: dowsing the future can be unreliable because there are too many variables involved


I agree with Brian- "horses for courses"- but I find that the "variables" issue means that I prefer the use of, for example, Tarot cards for divination. They allow me more flexibility ("they allow" being key, perhaps?) in direction & interpretation. I find the use of metaphor is crucial in this area- and for me dowsing is less appropriate, maybe because it is more literal?
It is an interesting question, and one I have asked of myself on many occasions; and I'm still not sure I have come up with a satisfactory answer- but this is the best I have for now.
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby B.J.C.Courtney » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:26 pm

simonwheeler wrote:
Geoff: dowsing the future can be unreliable because there are too many variables involved


I agree with Brian- "horses for courses"- but I find that the "variables" issue means that I prefer the use of, for example, Tarot cards for divination. They allow me more flexibility ("they allow" being key, perhaps?) in direction & interpretation. I find the use of metaphor is crucial in this area- and for me dowsing is less appropriate, maybe because it is more literal?
It is an interesting question, and one I have asked of myself on many occasions; and I'm still not sure I have come up with a satisfactory answer- but this is the best I have for now.


Bos, it is still i feel personal choice, given that each of is difrent, our understanding is thus the controling factor in any given journey.
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Bonnie » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:36 pm

Hi Geoff. In my view, prediction of the future is tricky, regardless of the approach or technique used. The future is probably not linear and entirely pre-formed, and thus is apt to be at least somewhat fluid. The usual disclaimer given with prediction is that a certain result can be expected if nothing else changes in the trajectory of the energies - so theoretically, altering any of the variables in a situation can change the outcome.

Patterns (as seen in card throws, astrological charts and so on) can be used to map the territory, but the unexpected variable can redirect the flow of time and tide. Very subtle factors come into play (I think of the example often cited in discussions of chaos theory, in which the flapping of a butterfly's wings is said to tip the balance of nature toward a hurricane on the other side of the world). I agree with B.J.C. and Simon that dowsing is itself a form or aspect of divination, and as such I don't think that it is inherently better or worse at predicting the future than techniques based on the interpretation of patterns.
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:11 am

Replies on this thread -

(Brian) As a born empathic clairvouyant i find your posting extreamy intresting,, the L rod is also called the divining rod thus all aspects of this esoteric are one of the same, you ask is that is Divination better than Dowsing?

Well as i feel and no they are aspects of one of the same, just like the cloths, even style, colour we wear, its basicly down in part to culture and individual Spiritual practice, we are born to tap into Divination, the word divine insperation says it all, its just horses for courses or personal taste.

(Geoff): dowsing the future can be unreliable because there are too many variables involved

(Simon) I agree with Brian- "horses for courses"- but I find that the "variables" issue means that I prefer the use of, for example, Tarot cards for divination. They allow me more flexibility ("they allow" being key, perhaps?) in direction & interpretation. I find the use of metaphor is crucial in this area- and for me dowsing is less appropriate, maybe because it is more literal?
It is an interesting question, and one I have asked of myself on many occasions; and I'm still not sure I have come up with a satisfactory answer- but this is the best I have for now.

(Bonnie) Hi Geoff. In my view, prediction of the future is tricky, regardless of the approach or technique used. The future is probably not linear and entirely pre-formed, and thus is apt to be at least somewhat fluid. The usual disclaimer given with prediction is that a certain result can be expected if nothing else changes in the trajectory of the energies - so theoretically, altering any of the variables in a situation can change the outcome.

Patterns (as seen in card throws, astrological charts and so on) can be used to map the territory, but the unexpected variable can redirect the flow of time and tide. Very subtle factors come into play (I think of the example often cited in discussions of chaos theory, in which the flapping of a butterfly's wings is said to tip the balance of nature toward a hurricane on the other side of the world). I agree with B.J.C. and Simon that dowsing is itself a form or aspect of divination, and as such I don't think that it is inherently better or worse at predicting the future than techniques based on the interpretation of patterns.

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. I would like, if I may, to make the following comments –

To Brian …I must admit that I have never heard of an L-rod being called a ‘divining rod’ because it does not divine anything if you agree with the definition of divining I posted which was :

“The attempt to gain knowledge of the future by interpreting a pattern that is produced when using tools such as Tarot, Casting Bones, I Ching, tealeaves or any other similar methods.”

In my opinion, an L-rod is used solely for the purpose of finding something either on or under the ground. It is not used for fortelling the future.

To Simon and Bonnie……I would agree with your comments, especially your reference to the Chaos Theory, Bonnie.

Regarding the relationship between dowsing and divining, I would submit that, apart from the fact that both are used to obtain information, there is one heck of a difference between the two methods and I would b delighted to explain why I think there are differences to anyone, if he/she thought otherwise, but that would be under a new thread.
Geoff

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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Bonnie » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:01 pm

Hi Geoff. I think that semantic distinctions between dowsing and divining might be enumerated, but the question originally posed in this thread (which is a better way to forecast the future, divination or dowsing?) probably cannot be answered, since one would first of all have to accept the premise that it is possible to foretell the future. That area is fraught with disagreement, individual opinions aside.

Regarding Brian's use of the term "divining rod," that is what L-rods were called where I grew up - not because they were used to predict the future or align with a god, but because they helped to locate that which was hidden (whether an idea or an object).
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby simonwheeler » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:01 pm

Bonnie: Regarding Brian's use of the term "divining rod," that is what L-rods were called where I grew up - not because they were used to predict the future or align with a god, but because they helped to locate that which was hidden (whether an idea or an object).

And it had an historically accepted use here too.

Check out this thread for an example of how "Divining Rod" used to be in common usage....dowsing for water was "water divining"; consequently what were used for this were known as "divining rods".
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:04 pm

Hi Bonnie,

(Bonnie) "...the question originally posed in this thread probably cannot be answered, since one would first of all have to accept the premise that it is possible to foretell the future."

Nice one ! :mrgreen:

I did mention, in my original post the word 'attempt' in connection with trying to divine the future. Many people, I think, would try to do so via divination but do we ever hear of anything foretold (divined)that has actually 'come to pass' ? If so, do we know if something foretold and has 'come to pass' is not the result of clairvoyance rather than divination ? (Personally I think clairvoyance is more reliable)

Thanks for your explanation of the dowsing rod. I suspect that term was used in connection with 'water witching'. Possibly both words could have been introduced into the US and Canada by immigrants from Europe, and be linked to much older definitions of dowsing and divination when they were probably linked in people's minds - one that sent Martin Luther up the wall ? I always wonder whether people like Martin Luther drank water from a source found by a dowser.
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Satyr » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:27 pm

Hmmmm, interesting question, although I have always thought of dowsing as a form of diving anyway. I do a lot of Divination and find that I get more clarity with dowsing, because I can phrase particular questions and get a yes or no answer, whereas with oracle cards, its a more general forecast of the future.

I use various forms/types of divination, including dowsing, oracle cards, tealeaves, crystal ball scrying, water scrying, flame scrying, smoke scrying and a black mirror. Admittedly though, the scrying requires some psychic ability, whereas oracle cards and tealeaves don't really, its just a matter of being able to 'read' the cards/leaves (although if one has psychic abilities, they do come into play for this as well).

For forecasting, my preferred method is oracle cards combined with dowsing to get more clarity.

Oh yes, and I had also heard of L-rods as being called divining rods, but more in the sense of divining for water.
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:06 pm

Hi Satyr,

Thanks for your response. I wondered if you might respond to this thread :mrgreen:

Personally I think you might be mixing up dowsing, divining and clairvoyance and possibly even mediumship (grouped together as psychic abilities) in the methods you use, which seem to be virtually everything you can get your hands on, to produce an accurate result as possible. I would be most interested to learn what percentage of your forecasts turn out to be correct, assuming that you get some feedback. You are the only one so far to use both divining and dowsing for forecasting.
Geoff

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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby simonwheeler » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:00 pm

Geoff: You are the only one so far to use both divining and dowsing for forecasting.

...in which case I didn't make myself clear. I wrote "I prefer" etc. And I do. But there is a place for both. It depends upon what you are trying to do. Yes- "fortune-telling" or "future-telling" are not an exact science :!: ; sometimes I start with a pendulum (or aurameter) & move on to, for example, cards or maybe runes; other times I may start with the runes/cards and move on to the pendulum...I very rarely use rods. If I had to choose just one "tool" it probably would not be the dowsing kit- for the reasons already given. "Horses for courses" to me refers to not only who may prefer to use what, but also who may prefer to use what when. :roll:
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:03 pm

Sorry Simon, I certainly misunderstood your references.
Geoff

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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby simonwheeler » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:05 pm

Nae bother, Geoff!!
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Re: Is Dowsing better than Divining when forecasting ?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:17 pm

Ah didna ken before, Simon, but Ah ken the noo !
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