Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

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Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby Lyndon Ronstadt » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:37 pm

Compare the face of Nicholas Cage with this 19th centuary image. There are other facial similarities out there but none, I think, are as remarkable as this.

The key, I think, lies not in the face which may vary substantially from one incarnation to another, but in the eyes. Have a look at Kieron Williamson at 47 seconds and compare with Picasso on Wikipedia. Are they the eyes of the same person?
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:39 pm

Lyndon Ronstadt wrote:Compare the face of Nicholas Cage with this 19th centuary image. There are other facial similarities out there but none, I think, are as remarkable as this.

The key, I think, lies not in the face which may vary substantially from one incarnation to another, but in the eyes. Have a look at Kieron Williamson at 47 seconds and compare with Picasso on Wikipedia. Are they the eyes of the same person?


Lyndon,

I dont see, the connection as anything other than a similarity which when given the amount of people, and the scope of genetics is really not that remarkable, I would go further to say that there are probably better similarities than the Nicholas Cage one, according to probability, certainly not evidence.

If re-incarnation is the soul continuing within a new body, then why would we see a physical similarity in facial appearance. I have come to see re-incarnation as the soul travelling within a vehicle, the body and all its features being the vehicle. How do you see this being influenced by the soul ?

This is the way I have come to understand re-incarnation. Imagine the complete life force of our species in one individual form, as an evolution of this the individual being so incredibly vast, divides itself up, and then keeps dividing, and the life force becomes diluted, you then have a "super race" of very capable 30 individuals, this process continues, and eachtime it divides you end up with less intelligent and weaker traits within the individuals. Eventually you may end up like our race and dividing itself up more and more, there will perhaps be a point where this system flips round, and the number of individuals get smaller, i.e the population becomes controlled, and the quality genetically is improved, in the following generations there would be a distinct reduction in the population of that race, but the beings would be more capable / more intelligent / e.t.c. This is an idea I came across / I do not say with certainty this occurs, I write science fiction and I have a race which does this.

I have been conducting some research into schizophrenia, and it could well be that schizophrenia is potentially a "next step" in human development, but we see the consequences of a brain which is unable to identify and distinguish the information - hence the paranoia, when the brain size and use becomes greater then we may find that to sustain this the brain allocates different areas to different emotion groups / perhaps not personalities as such but as the brain develops its system for using and storing information also has to evolve. Food for thought.



Best wishes

Tom
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby Helen-Healing » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:49 am

I also think that physical similarity has more to do with genetics than reincarnation.

ledgehammer wrote:This is the way I have come to understand re-incarnation. Imagine the complete life force of our species in one individual form, as an evolution of this the individual being so incredibly vast, divides itself up, and then keeps dividing, and the life force becomes diluted, you then have a "super race" of very capable 30 individuals, this process continues, and eachtime it divides you end up with less intelligent and weaker traits within the individuals. Eventually you may end up like our race and dividing itself up more and more, there will perhaps be a point where this system flips round, and the number of individuals get smaller, i.e the population becomes controlled, and the quality genetically is improved, in the following generations there would be a distinct reduction in the population of that race, but the beings would be more capable / more intelligent / e.t.c.

I find that interesting, Tom. My understanding is also that we are 'drops' of the complete life force (or 'god') that come to this earth, or plane of being, to work on ourselves so that we become better & more evolved than 'the last time' we were here, and at the end of this apprenticeship we (the souls) return to the body of the kirk to enhance it; those who have not succeeded in evolving the consciousness can only dilute the whole & will have to return many more times to rectify this. I think perhaps the intelligent life force is getting just a little impatient...?

Now this may sound quite controversial but....
Could the starving & dying hordes in Africa, for example, (and there have been many millions over recent decades) be one way of weeding out the unevolved? Or the hundreds of thousands who die in what ostensibly are futile & unnecessary wars? Could the present rise in extremist Islam be the last gasp stand of the less evolved v the more evolved? In this modern age, there is a definite & visible divide between those with higher consciousness & those without. The battle between them goes on in all areas of experience, every day.

Let's just hope that the 2012 predictions really do concern the prevalence of enlightenment over outworn ideology! :mrgreen:
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:54 pm

Helen-Healing wrote:I also think that physical similarity has more to do with genetics than reincarnation.

ledgehammer wrote:This is the way I have come to understand re-incarnation. Imagine the complete life force of our species in one individual form, as an evolution of this the individual being so incredibly vast, divides itself up, and then keeps dividing, and the life force becomes diluted, you then have a "super race" of very capable 30 individuals, this process continues, and eachtime it divides you end up with less intelligent and weaker traits within the individuals. Eventually you may end up like our race and dividing itself up more and more, there will perhaps be a point where this system flips round, and the number of individuals get smaller, i.e the population becomes controlled, and the quality genetically is improved, in the following generations there would be a distinct reduction in the population of that race, but the beings would be more capable / more intelligent / e.t.c.

I find that interesting, Tom. My understanding is also that we are 'drops' of the complete life force (or 'god') that come to this earth, or plane of being, to work on ourselves so that we become better & more evolved than 'the last time' we were here, and at the end of this apprenticeship we (the souls) return to the body of the kirk to enhance it; those who have not succeeded in evolving the consciousness can only dilute the whole & will have to return many more times to rectify this. I think perhaps the intelligent life force is getting just a little impatient...?

Now this may sound quite controversial but....
Could the starving & dying hordes in Africa, for example, (and there have been many millions over recent decades) be one way of weeding out the unevolved? Or the hundreds of thousands who die in what ostensibly are futile & unnecessary wars? Could the present rise in extremist Islam be the last gasp stand of the less evolved v the more evolved? In this modern age, there is a definite & visible divide between those with higher consciousness & those without. The battle between them goes on in all areas of experience, every day.

Let's just hope that the 2012 predictions really do concern the prevalence of enlightenment over outworn ideology! :mrgreen:


Helen,

exactly as I see it, i.e it may be nothing more than pot luck that detirmines where you go. Although I like a friends idea that we choose the life that may be most relevant to our development, we forget eveything in order to truly experience it, if we had knowledge this would hinder the experience (or enhance it - for those who are more advanced).

The idea for the race was one that came to me, the idea of a fixed conciousness which is distributed across the species, and it could also explain that the bigger a society gets the more diluted it becomes (of course there may be many explanations for this). It seemed like an interesting idea to help play with ideas around population control which would surely be an important element to a race like ourselves.

My friend would say in response to the Africa situation, that you as an eternal being (the soul) would choose to experience this, I believe that ourselves as an eternal being would need to experience everything, there would be no good or bad but opportunity to understand. We envision spending time with an african tribe as a regression from first world to third, but our eternal soul would gain a great deal from the experience - you could say it may learn a lot more about itself, humanity and a lot else. We have a first world experience happening right now, which is a good experience, but I feel that there is a point where we will have learnt all we need to and sometime after this point we would die and then choose to experience something else, but this choice would be not from the ideological viewpoint that you would be at if you made a decision now, if that makes sense.

I also believe that once you have experienced x y and z, you would then assend to a next level, which may be the same thing but in another area of the universe / conciousness. Or it may be to do with the support and maintenance of the process itself, or the support and maintenace of those meant to progress within the system (everyone).

Do you remember learning in school, I remember it as remembering and not learning. I found it quite easy to understand things in school, and I got to wondering, what if we are remembering it rather than learning it, and the level of learning could be dictated by the number of incarnations that experienced learning this information before. Not to mention the experiences people have had regarding past lives, dreams e.t.c.

Best wishes

Tom
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby Helen-Healing » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:51 pm

We envision spending time with an african tribe as a regression from first world to third, but our eternal soul would gain a great deal from the experience - you could say it may learn a lot more about itself, humanity and a lot else.

I wonder quite how much a soul would learn from being born into poverty & hunger, living a short life in the same state, and dying of malnutrition and/or HIV, malaria, tribal violence or any combination of these. What physical suffering is like? How human beings are capable of acting towards each other?
There are many ways to experience physical suffering, of which the soul could learn far more than from this, imho. I may be wrong, of course, but why are millions still living this futile & poverty and hunger filled life, in the 21st century? It beats me.
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:22 pm

Helen-Healing wrote:
We envision spending time with an african tribe as a regression from first world to third, but our eternal soul would gain a great deal from the experience - you could say it may learn a lot more about itself, humanity and a lot else.

I wonder quite how much a soul would learn from being born into poverty & hunger, living a short life in the same state, and dying of malnutrition and/or HIV, malaria, tribal violence or any combination of these. What physical suffering is like? How human beings are capable of acting towards each other?
There are many ways to experience physical suffering, of which the soul could learn far more than from this, imho. I may be wrong, of course, but why are millions still living this futile & poverty and hunger filled life, in the 21st century? It beats me.


I agree with you Helen, as I am also existing within this life, a life which perceives the third world in this way. It was a bad example but was trying to show that this perception, is the perception for this incarnation - and an eternal soul may see a life which we consider to be truly un-beneficial, with some merit. This is hard to see, but I am planning on travelling next year and giving up everything I have, I feel I would benefit more from this experience - this is a very bad comparison but it comes back to perception.

A race of beings may well create a series of simulations designed to give a realistic experience, for the purposes of entertainment, perhaps in the same way we go to Alton towers to experience what we no longer have to as our current life provides much shelter from any adrenaline related experience. If this was the case, and we knew that suffering was only temporary and "part of the experience" would this stop you experiencing it, I dont think it would, but when you have reached point x i.e the point in which the suffering had no benefit, you would leave the experience, die and be re-incarnated. I could imagine many of todays "prime" human candidates would pick the most gruesome, and riskiest encounters. Could planet Earth be an entertainment planet?

Best wishes

Tom
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby Lyndon Ronstadt » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:04 pm

Tom,

The problem with the probability theory is that it does not demand evidence. If 'x' facial features contribute to a person's facial identity and each feature has 'y' possible variations then every {x function y} individual should look like Nicholas Cage. QED! Problem solved! Fancy a pint?

But the reincarnation idea does demands evidence as it's not a currently accepted theory. In collecting evidence, other possibilities may present themselves which have little bearing on either reincarnation or probability. The point is that the probability theory (being accepted) is not a stimulus to further investigation while the reincarnation theory (currently not accepted) is, quite irrespective of it's actual validity.

The reason I made this topic is because another You Tube entry is claiming that Nicholas Cage is a vampire. Is this, in the 21st centaury, the current state of human esoteric knowledge - a reversion to 19th centaury fiction? Saints preserve us!

If re-incarnation is the soul continuing within a new body, then why would we see a physical similarity in facial appearance.


Precisely, that's why I say that the Cage case is remarkable (on the evidence, if not the probability) and why I suggested it's not the face as such that is the 'evidence' of reincarnation, but the eyes. The eyes, they say, are the windows of the soul and if this is true they may convey something to the intuitive observer above and beyond any physical evidence. Recognition, perhaps, is an intuitive faculty and the only true method of determining identity beyond the confines of one incarnation or from one form to another. It's also the reason behind my posting those eyes in Superior Beings. If you see those eyes looking at you at some point in the future you may wish to have a chat with them - assuming of course you still have possession of your internal functions. By their eyes shall ye know them 8)

As for the soul and reincarnation, what parts of the human being are passed from life to life and what parts are discarded? The Brain, which is characterised by Activity, Feeling or Thought is discarded at death but the mind characterised by Art, Science or Philosophy is transferred. Desire characterised by Attraction, Communication, ?, Cooperation or Distribution is also passed on as is Knowledge characterised by Endurance, Forbearance, Harmony, Love or Peace. This information is of course obtained by dowsing and is subject to the usual caveats about accuracy. It is an individual's Quality that is passed from life to life and conditions every new incarnation with the gains of the past. Without quality there is oblivion at death but, apparently, something still persists from life to life which I have yet to investigate.

Helen,

If we aspire to greater things in this life but fail to achieve them, the hope must surely be that we get a second chance. If there is a second chance then perhaps our current life is a second chance viewed from a previous existence. Enlightenment then is a relative term as we are each at different rungs of the same ladder. In terms of economics we may not be as enlightened as we think. Are we in the west, at the top of the human ladder, simply standing on the shoulders of those at lower levels and calling them 'primitive' because we have put mechanisms in place which effectively keep them from overhauling us?

What if the western financial model should fail? Who will survive? The western sophisticate who knows everything about everything but obtains his sustenance from the now empty supermarket, or the so called primitive peoples living on bugs in the Amazon rain forest? Our way of life has been bought at a price and that price is vulnerability, should the protective edifice we have created collapse.

"Hey guys, you with the bones through your noses. We're hungry. Show us how to fish, find bugs, pacify the bees with burning herbs as our can of insecticide is empty etc etc".

Perhaps technical knowledge is ephemeral and not true knowledge. Perhaps quality is the true reality and can only be achieved through repeated stabs at the same problem over as many lives as necessary. Perhaps quality comes by solving problems and not by sitting smugly on a pile of solutions.
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:47 pm

Lyndon Ronstadt wrote:Tom,

The problem with the probability theory is that it does not demand evidence. If 'x' facial features contribute to a person's facial identity and each feature has 'y' possible variations then every {x function y} individual should look like Nicholas Cage. QED! Problem solved! Fancy a pint?

But the reincarnation idea does demands evidence as it's not a currently accepted theory. In collecting evidence, other possibilities may present themselves which have little bearing on either reincarnation or probability. The point is that the probability theory (being accepted) is not a stimulus to further investigation while the reincarnation theory (currently not accepted) is, quite irrespective of it's actual validity.

The reason I made this topic is because another You Tube entry is claiming that Nicholas Cage is a vampire. Is this, in the 21st centaury, the current state of human esoteric knowledge - a reversion to 19th centaury fiction? Saints preserve us!

If re-incarnation is the soul continuing within a new body, then why would we see a physical similarity in facial appearance.


Precisely, that's why I say that the Cage case is remarkable (on the evidence, if not the probability) and why I suggested it's not the face as such that is the 'evidence' of reincarnation, but the eyes. The eyes, they say, are the windows of the soul and if this is true they may convey something to the intuitive observer above and beyond any physical evidence. Recognition, perhaps, is an intuitive faculty and the only true method of determining identity beyond the confines of one incarnation or from one form to another. It's also the reason behind my posting those eyes in Superior Beings. If you see those eyes looking at you at some point in the future you may wish to have a chat with them - assuming of course you still have possession of your internal functions. By their eyes shall ye know them 8)

As for the soul and reincarnation, what parts of the human being are passed from life to life and what parts are discarded? The Brain, which is characterised by Activity, Feeling or Thought is discarded at death but the mind characterised by Art, Science or Philosophy is transferred. Desire characterised by Attraction, Communication, ?, Cooperation or Distribution is also passed on as is Knowledge characterised by Endurance, Forbearance, Harmony, Love or Peace. This information is of course obtained by dowsing and is subject to the usual caveats about accuracy. It is an individual's Quality that is passed from life to life and conditions every new incarnation with the gains of the past. Without quality there is oblivion at death but, apparently, something still persists from life to life which I have yet to investigate.


Lyndon,

ha ha! Well I don't bragg about it but Im actually Johnny Depp ! ;-)

Do you ever find yourself looking at someone, as thinking it is someone that you know, then realise that it isn't them. I also find that when I interact with someone I tend to define them in reference to someone I have met previously / Its the way I identify someone.

I was told years ago that a persons genetic information can be interpreted from the eye (an ...ology, not someones idea), incidently are you talking about Nicholas Cage's eyes or are you talking about how Nicholas Cages eyes are perceived from anothers, or that a persons soul can influence the genetics of that vehicle on a physical level?

best wishes

Tom
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby Lyndon Ronstadt » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:24 pm

I think facial similarity from life to life is a red herring. Facial similarity to what? Facial similarity to a less perfect incarnation? If facial similarity exists it exists between the current incarnation and some blueprint existing on a higher plane to which each incarnation attempts to conform and succeeds or fails according to some as yet inscrutable criteria.

If Cage's current face conforms well with his previous one he is either well advanced on his spiritual trajectory or is being used through his fame to pique public interest in the phenomenon. My guess is he the first of a trend intended to raise certain subjects in the public mind. What these subjects may be we can only guess at but reincarnation may well be one of them.

Eye recognition may be a different phenomenon. I recognised the eyes in the superior beings thread from an earlier image of the same individual taken some years previously. The facial images are not that similar to the casual observer but it was the eyes that made the link for me even though the earlier image was less intense in it's gaze. Whether this recognition is open to all with sufficient practice or whether it demands some psychic attunement I have no idea but I guess (and it is just a guess) that eye recognition will ultimately prove to be the most reliable way of linking images of the same individual from one incarnation to another.

As far as genetics is concerned there are two souls IMO. One is the human soul (small 's') which accumulates over countless incarnations and is what we understand as 'I', and the other is the Soul (capital 'S') which is a separate entity from our personal 'I' and is the teaching and protective agent for each individual. Soul and Guardian Angel are synonymous terms. It's the Soul which is responsible for our future physical forms designed according to our educational needs and karmic obligations. Logically this Soul must be responsible for our genetics whether imposed from above or inherited.

Now I must go for a lie down. :shock:
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:56 pm

Lyndon Ronstadt wrote:I think facial similarity from life to life is a red herring. Facial similarity to what? Facial similarity to a less perfect incarnation? If facial similarity exists it exists between the current incarnation and some blueprint existing on a higher plane to which each incarnation attempts to conform and succeeds or fails according to some as yet inscrutable criteria.

If Cage's current face conforms well with his previous one he is either well advanced on his spiritual trajectory or is being used through his fame to pique public interest in the phenomenon. My guess is he the first of a trend intended to raise certain subjects in the public mind. What these subjects may be we can only guess at but reincarnation may well be one of them.

Eye recognition may be a different phenomenon. I recognised the eyes in the superior beings thread from an earlier image of the same individual taken some years previously. The facial images are not that similar to the casual observer but it was the eyes that made the link for me even though the earlier image was less intense in it's gaze. Whether this recognition is open to all with sufficient practice or whether it demands some psychic attunement I have no idea but I guess (and it is just a guess) that eye recognition will ultimately prove to be the most reliable way of linking images of the same individual from one incarnation to another.

As far as genetics is concerned there are two souls IMO. One is the human soul (small 's') which accumulates over countless incarnations and is what we understand as 'I', and the other is the Soul (capital 'S') which is a separate entity from our personal 'I' and is the teaching and protective agent for each individual. Soul and Guardian Angel are synonymous terms. It's the Soul which is responsible for our future physical forms designed according to our educational needs and karmic obligations. Logically this Soul must be responsible for our genetics whether imposed from above or inherited.

Now I must go for a lie down. :shock:


Lyndon,

cracking answer friend, thankyou. I shall reflect on what you said, and respond when I have my eyes and my head around it ;-)

interestingly one thing which I have always been curious of is - If accepted science is to be accepted for a minute, why is it we know when someone is looking at us. I have conducted various experiments, and if you look at someones eyes and imagine their attention, they will get a sensation which then causes them to locate where the looking is coming from, they do this thing (myself included) where they almost recognise then they will look up roughly in the direction that you are (if you are doing the looking) I have tested this while being in a car, with sunglasses on driving past (in traffic) somone I do not know, on the other side of the road and mostly they will react in the same way.

We call this intuition, but in my book there must be a connection between my eyes and their eyes or I have either been very lucky or poor in the method of the experiments. There has to be a system in place which links these two things together, and it is almost like with sonar they are able to locate me looking at them. I then went even further and tried it up close with my shades on. Its like they know you are looking at them, and there is no way they can see that my eyes are looking at theirs, I have tried looking past them then at them, there seems to be a definite link here.

Best wishes

Tom
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby simonwheeler » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:34 pm

Tom- have you read Rupert Sheldrake?
As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby Lyndon Ronstadt » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:37 pm

Tom,
I was given this experiment years ago as a supposed demonstration of our psychic natures. You stare at the back or side of someones head and they turn in your direction. Mystics and scientists seem to agree on one thing: all is energy. If our focused attention transmits energy to another person they may well respond to it at a subliminal level without knowing quite why. I've transmitted chackra energy to others I knew only by sight and discovered, hey presto, I kept bumping into them far more frequently than previously. Whether this energy can be detected with a dipole and a radio receiver is open to question but a link of some sort there appears to be.
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:28 pm

simonwheeler wrote:Tom- have you read Rupert Sheldrake?


i have not....im afraid...

regards

tom
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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby simonwheeler » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:34 pm

A quick look through Sheldrake's wikipedia entry may be of interest....in the context of here, "Sense of Being Stared at" is most relevant.

His own website can be found here.
As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

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Re: Facial Similarity as Evidence of Reincarnation?

Postby ledgehammer » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:05 pm

Lyndon Ronstadt wrote:Tom,
I was given this experiment years ago as a supposed demonstration of our psychic natures. You stare at the back or side of someones head and they turn in your direction. Mystics and scientists seem to agree on one thing: all is energy. If our focused attention transmits energy to another person they may well respond to it at a subliminal level without knowing quite why. I've transmitted chackra energy to others I knew only by sight and discovered, hey presto, I kept bumping into them far more frequently than previously. Whether this energy can be detected with a dipole and a radio receiver is open to question but a link of some sort there appears to be.


Lyndon,

I dont know why but I know that for two points to be linked such as the eyes meeting, there would have to be a connection there initially, I wonder how far this connection goes. imagine a tube which is there and when energy is sent one way the energy can be detected from the other end of the tube. Is this tube intent? And why does the connection between the eyes seem to be more obvious. I am sure as with your response, we are able to send this energy in different forms, to different places to acheive different things, the eyes seem to be the gateway to remembering how?

best wishes

Tom
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