Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

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Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Ian Pegler » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:35 pm

split from Skeptic wants to be elected

Grahame Gardner wrote:Interesting!

A quick look at his blog also revealed his entry on John Baker's dowsing lesson.
I particularly liked this quote:
“So it’s like a Ouija board?” I say.

“Don’t go there,” Baker says, frowning. “It’s not like that.
:lol:



According to Michael Brooks this is a "fair question":

But it seems like a fair question to me. Talking about “energies” is one thing. Talking about something that knows the meaning of “centuries” and “AD or BC?” is quite another.


So, why is dowsing NOT like ouija? Or perhaps you think it is?

Okay people, discuss.

Ian.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:35 am

OK Ian, Let me start the ball rolling….The only similarity I find between dowsing and using an ouija board is that in both cases a person asks for information by mentally broadcasting a thought (question) that can be picked up and answered by a source that is either known or unknown. Bearing in mind that, when dowsing, it is possible to connect with a source that one knows to be reliable. For me that happens only when my pendulum revolves almost horizontally. When it revolves at an angle of about 45 degrees I suspect interference from an unknown source and have to start again to establish a good connection. Using a ouija board there is no way of checking, to my knowledge, what or who the source of information is and one is quite likely to pick up anything ‘out there’ which can sometimes be quite dangerous and have tragic consequences, particularly if some kind of temporary or permanent link with that source is invited by a participant...
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Grahame Gardner » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:08 am

Do you know, I was thinking of splitting this into a new topic myself, as it seems like it could be an interesting discussion. Perhaps our 'sources' are in tune with each other, Ian? :P

Certainly in ye olden days, back when it was known as rhabdomancy, dowsing was pretty much equated with spirit contact in the same manner as Ouija, and pendulums were often used to pick out letters on the table instead of a glass or planchette. I came across an interesting reference to this recently, but damned if I can remember where it was at the moment...

I pretty much agree with Geoff's position on the matter - with a Ouija board you are quite literally throwing open the metaphysical doors and inviting any passing intelligence to come in and join the party. In addition, there is usually a group of people involved in the process, so there is no overall controlling intent in what you contact; whereas a single dowser has much more control over what 'comes through'. I think that's the central distinction between the two processes.

I would also argue (and have done frequently in other posts!) that the primary dowsing mechanism is within the dowser - the pendulum is enabling dialogue with one's own subconscious, linking left- and right-brains if you will. From there, the subconscious can connect to external influences/sources/intelligences (insert preferred term here) to gain information about remote places/events/times etc. But the dowser is in control of that process through the intermediary of the pendulum, which is providing the informational bridge as well as acting as a metaphysical 'doorkeeper'; and it is that filtering process that provides protection for the dowser as well as ensuring a reliable connection. For me, this is one of the greatest strengths of dowsing, as it allows one to access these higher spiritual realms without the need for directly linking one's consciousness to them in the manner of say, spirit mediums or the need to indulge in lengthy rituals, trances or other traditionally 'magickal' techniques.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Geoff Stuttaford » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:25 am

You would not have to argue with me about the content of your last paragraph, Grahame. I entirely agree with your explanation.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby arthur hamlin » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:38 pm

Okay - now to put a very soft spanner into the works.
I for one believe the use of the Ouija is very similar to that of dowsing.
We have got so used to believing this to be an improper means of communication with the other side, so it continues.
The main difference I believe is that permission and protection is not sufficiently well asked for, plus you have a number of people especilly those that are young and wish for a thrill who`s attunement to the processess involved may not be in complete harmony thereby affording a kind of add hoc approach.
Here again you have physical movement of the hands and arms which can reach across the table, same as physical movements of dowsing rods and pendulums.
I believe this is all relating to telepathy. Unless permission and protection is requested from the heart instead of a possible manipulative brain by everyone, than anyone can come through the door.
Also good protective energies needs to go right around the table and the participants and remain so during the exercise.
If the light you put out is bright enough you will attract that similar light on the other side. If it is done for a laugh than you will attract the laugh from the other side, same as dowsing.
When in contact with my source there has often been a cut off point when my hand does not move. Later when I question this I`m told that an earthbound went close by and we did not want to attract its attention otherwise our information exchange could well have been distorted. Same happens with pedulum rods and ouija.

I also do not agree with the theory that the subconscious has to come into play everytime.
My dowsing says this is most likely the case with those dowsers that occasionally dowse, but am told that those that dowse once or more times in the day just the conscious is sufficient for the source to understand what you are putting over.
It has often been said - `Let your light so shine before men` another is the `Lighthouse` - the bigger the light the more can be seen.
I feel its not all to do with the mental mechanics here but attuning your heart to the unseen intelligence for their needs as well as ours.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Ian Pegler » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:43 am

Do you know, I was thinking of splitting this into a new topic myself, as it seems like it could be an interesting discussion. Perhaps our 'sources' are in tune with each other, Ian? :P


It seems to me that Michael Brooks' point is being over-looked.

A tacit assumption is being made by most dowsers, especially those introduced to it within the context of dowsing societies, that the movement of the rods imparts meaning. This assumption is NOT always made by outsiders experimenting with rods by themselves. Very often a crossing of the rods is assumed by them to be a reaction (c.f. radiesthesia) to the presence of (or "energy" from) underground water, pipes or whatever rather than a message from some kind of ghost or spirit or one's unconscious. Writers like Applegate and Underwood tend to write in terms of 'positive' and 'negative' reactions, but there is no semantic meaning implied by these terms, they are not 'yes' and 'no'. Also some experimenters like John Greenwood, Vincent Reddish etc. prefer to explain the dowsing reaction in purely physics terms (electrostatics, spin-torsion or whatever).

I don't use words like 'source' or 'guide' in relation to my dowsing because to my way of thinking they are unnecessary concepts that don't explain anything and just raise more questions than answers.

If the movements of the rod are to be understood in terms of natural language then this begs the question, "where does this information come from?" if you say "from a guide" this begs more questions such as 1) How does the guide know anything at all? 2) Why do different guides give different answers to the same question? 3) How come a single guide can give inconsistent answers, simply by rephrasing the same question in different ways? Whose guide is better than whose? etc. etc.

I assume that the rods are capable of behaving in a way that imparts meaningful information but it's not ouija because those answers come from me - I either know or perceive more than I am consciously aware of - somehow - and ask questions to convert that information into something comprehensible. I am able to do this because through practice and repetition I have programmed my dowsing responses to mean what I want them to mean.

This still leaves the vexed question relating to that somehow. I personally think that the "information field" concept espoused by people like our J.L. is the closest we have to a viable concept, although it may not always work that way all of the time.

Now, before I close, can we please keep this as a debate, rather than a dowsing contest?. Please put your pendulums aside for a while and TELL us what you think. Just for a change.

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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby simonwheeler » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:06 pm

To put it (over?) simply- for me it's about trust. I trust the rods/pendulum/aurameter to help me uncover/discover; no way would I trust ouija.

I know that raises so many questions...not least "why"...to which my primary answer is "it's experiential".
As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Bonnie » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:41 pm

Some time ago, it came to me that "the masters" are ourselves, vibrating at a much faster rate; so much faster, in fact, that masters and guides appear to be Other - and indeed, it would be hubris bordering on psychosis to identify with them in any conventional sense. But I do think that, through an intermediary like a dowsing device (or deviceless dowsing, using one's own sensorium as the tool), it is possible to align our human frequency with those faster/more refined rates of vibration, and in that way receive answers from a more inclusive perspective or source than our day-to-day vision permits. I think that the alignment is made through a harmonic process, whereby we do not actually replicate the highest frequency available to us, but rather position ourselves (through the intention to dowse) on a resonant note in a manner similar to what happens with vibrating strings and tuning forks: the spirit speaks, and we receive through the harmonic set up by dowsing. We literally "ride the wave" of vibration.

Now, the wave ascends and descends, in true harmonic fashion; and while the mechanism behind dowsing and using a Ouija board might be the same, the former tends to align with a faster rate of spin, and the latter slower. So in using the planchette (which might be considered a dowsing device, after all) we might actually be contacting basement levels of ourselves, represented or seemingly embodied by energies that are tricky and essentially untrustworthy (due to their lower, slower, narrower frequency range).

I think that dowsing and Ouija share functional properties, but differ as to where they are situated on the spectrum of vibration...and that is where intention comes in, as the "dial" on the sending/receiving set. With Ouija, typically the intention is simply to see what happens, who turns up, etc.; so anything can happen, but the frequency of the stated intention is low and non-specific. Dowsing is usually fine-tuned, done with a specific aim in mind, consciously in keeping with the higher wave functions of the universe. Intention seems to drive the dial, turning our human vibratory rate either down or up.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby simonwheeler » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:16 pm

Excellent post, Bonnie! :P
As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby arthur hamlin » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:38 pm

I tend to see the word 'Intention' as being made up of various thoughts. I believe there is no difference between the Ouija Board and the dowsing tools except the physical shapes and how they are used.
When a word comes to mind we immediatly have a size, colour, shape etc of what we have experienced for that item in the past.
The word 'Intention' is like the word 'Wish', but feel it is the make up for each that determines whether the key fits the lock so to speak .
In all this the word 'Love' is not frequently used here but feel to obtain good access to the higher intelligencies beyond this needs to be a major part of the recipe when intention turns into reality.
I believe the Ouija Board can be equally effective in reaching the higher intelligencies depending on the the mind set of the user.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Bonnie » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:52 pm

arthur hamlin wrote:In all this the word 'Love' is not frequently used here but feel to obtain good access to the higher intelligencies beyond this needs to be a major part of the recipe when intention turns into reality.

Very, very true and such a good point. I don't usually refer to love in discussions because it is an emotionally loaded word, and people have so many associations with it. My personal view is that love in the global sense is not primarily a feeling, but an inclusive state of being; so I tend to use the word "inclusive" more often, but I take your point.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Satyr » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:40 am

I find this discussion very interesting, because after years of being freaked out by Ouija boards (after playing a random game of glassy galssy as a teen and having a weird thing happen), I am currently considering getting one (not easy to do here in SA). The reason I am no longer afraid of the Ouija board is two fold - one reason is because of dowsing and the other is that because of the path I am on, I understand more about the spirit realms and more about how to protect myself.

I don't necessarily think that dowsing is like Ouija, but I do think it can be used like Ouija. I think one can use dowsing for exactly the same purpose one can use a Ouija board - to contact those on the 'other' side/s.
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby simonwheeler » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:24 am

Satyr: I think one can use dowsing for exactly the same purpose one can use a Ouija board


So why are you thinking of getting a Ouija board?!
As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

www.simongordonwheeler.co.uk

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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby Satyr » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:27 am

simonwheeler wrote:
Satyr: I think one can use dowsing for exactly the same purpose one can use a Ouija board


So why are you thinking of getting a Ouija board?!

Just because.....LOL I don't need one, I'd just kinda like to get one and give it a try (properly protected of course)
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Re: Why is dowsing NOT like Ouija?

Postby arthur hamlin » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:25 pm

Good luck Satyr,
I would be interested to know how you get on.
Please return and tell us of your experiences.
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